Why do Christian Hedonists seem to abruptly stop talking as soon as you ask for Scripture?

Question 20.

Why do Christian Hedonists seem to abruptly stop talking as soon as you ask for Scripture?

Answer 20.

Preface: It would be inappropriate to characterize all Christian Hedonists as acting the same or responding in precisely the same manner. In truth, all Christians are unique individuals, with their own personalities, motivations, and values. Therefore, every believer will be somewhat different in their reaction to being questioned about hedonism. This FAQ is in no way meant to denigrate anyone or stereotype any given group. This FAQ does point out a fundamental human response that seems to manifest itself across demographic lines and to explain to non-hedonists why a specific reaction is so often encountered.

When I first started studying Christian Hedonism years ago, before I understood very much about the doctrine or the philosophy, I began asking questions of my pastoral staff and other leaders in the local church in which I was a small group leader within the lay ministry. Very quickly the questions moved beyond, "what does the book Desiring God mean here?", to "and where in the Bible did that concept come from?"

When the questions moved from "what does it mean?" to "where did this come from?" the leadership discontinued answering questions and avoided the subject altogether. As the silence deepened, so did my study. As my study, and questions, deepened the leadership took varied actions to attempt to stop the inquiries from myself and from others, not by resorting to the Scriptures to answer the questions, but by resorting to methods by which to discourage discussion of the topic entirely.

This pattern of questions, silence, and active discouragement has continued in uncounted situations since. As soon as the conversation takes the logical step from "what does Christian Hedonism mean in this paragraph or on that page of the philosophy book?" to "where in the Scriptures does that idea or doctrine come from?" the dialogue abruptly stops and actions are taken to keep the conversation from continuing.

Sometimes the actions taken are as simple as the Christian Hedonist saying, "you don’t get it so I am not going to talk to you anymore", all the way to vicious personal attacks regarding character, intelligence, or the salvation standing of the inquirer. Most of the time the outcome is the same, dialogue is abruptly severed and the Christian Hedonist does not supply the promised Scripture passages from which he claims his beliefs flow.

Certainly, that does not happen every single time, but in my experience it is the prevalent pattern.

Refusing to provide a Scriptural defense does not seem to be an actual tenet of the doctrine or teachings of Christian Hedonism. Instead, it seems to be more a result of human nature under stress.

It is my opinion that when someone reads the various philosophy books that define Christian Hedonism, the reader is first shocked by the concepts (and the label), but over time as the reading progresses they adapt to the shock and become a bit desensitized–in other words humans become more accepting to most any idea the more familiar they become with it.

Since the books are filled with Scripture quotations on diverse subjects, partial verse quotations, allusions to numerous passages of the Bible, and old creeds of the faith (or re-worded creeds of the faith) it becomes an easy matter to be impressed by the sheer volume of references and to make the logical leap that the thesis statement must therefore be biblical. Once they have assured themselves this doctrine and philosophy are "biblical", the actual philosophy itself is quite appealing–God wants me to pursue my own pleasure with all my might.

When challenged on the biblical nature of the philosophy, it is my opinion that a Christian Hedonist’s first reaction will be to quote key phrases from the various works of philosophy which first convinced him to follow this system of belief, such as from Desiring God or Dangerous Duty. Since those quotes from philosophy books are not an inspired source of God’s instructions to man, the natural reaction of someone challenging hedonism is to ask the hedonist to supply the Bible passages from which the doctrine itself was derived. This is generally where the trouble begins.

A hedonist’s first reaction could well be to search the pages of the philosophy books to identify and quote back to the challenger the same passages of Scripture which they assume are what first convinced them to follow hedonism. Since, again in my opinion, those books of philosophy lack direct support of specific passages of Scripture regarding the necessity of hedonism, and the main thesis statements seem to be based more on re-worded creeds and assumptions about what the Bible "should" or "might" have said, the hedonist becomes quickly confused and frustrated.

Once someone, not just hedonists, comes to a realization that the fundamental elements of their belief system are unsupported by passages of legitimate Scripture, they become stressed. As a result of the stress they often resort to "tactics" and emotion instead of directly addressing the problem that rests before them.

In short, confronting a crisis of convictions a person must choose what to do and how to react. Some will choose to react in fear and anger in an effort to mask to themselves and others that they are indeed unable to validate their own value system with the Word. This takes the form of name-calling, repetitious quotations from extra-biblical sources, and the inevitable accusations which include all of the following which have been made to and about myself: "you don’t get it", "you’re mis-defining Piper’s words", "you’re too stupid to understand the deep things of God", "are you sure you’re a Christian", "I have given you plenty of Scripture, why don’t you respond to that [even though they have indeed offered none]", "you just make me so angry I cannot talk to you any more", "you have evil motives in questioning the biblical nature of hedonism", and, "it is obvious you have never read Piper’s books".

All these personal accusations are used to hide the real problem, most of these individuals have found that they and the books they use for reference, are unable to provide genuine Scriptural support (nor even proof texts) on which to base the most basic elements of hedonism (e.g. God commands man to pursue pleasure as man’s highest calling, or, that unless a man is born again into a Christian Hedonist he cannot see the kingdom of God).

Such a reaction to a crisis of conviction is a natural emotional response. No one enjoys realizing that some of their core beliefs are built on something less than actual precepts of Scripture.

For a few hedonists, they come to understand why they are so stressed and honestly evaluate their assumptions and beliefs in light of revealed Scripture. These few, as 2 Timothy 2:24-26 states, "come to their senses" and realign their beliefs with the Word of God. That takes true courage and much honest soul searching. Anyone who has had to admit to themselves, and even to others, that a dearly held assumption or value was incorrect, is aware that it takes uncommon personal fortitude and bravery to make the admission and to face it straight on.

It is for the benefit of these few that we ask the question, "from which passages of Scripture do you derive your belief that God commands men to ‘pursue pleasure with all their might’ and to be ‘converted to Christian Hedonism so they might access saving faith’?" If such tenets of hedonism are rooted in God’s truth, then they must be rooted in actual Scripture; however, if they are inventions of men, the student of the Word will find only man’s support. How will such a student respond to his crisis of conviction, with courage or with anger?

I don’t see any real difference between what you teach and what Christian Hedonism teaches; what do you see as the difference?

Question 19.

I don’t see any real difference between what you teach and what Christian Hedonism teaches; what do you see as the difference?

Answer 19.

Christian Hedonism is a philosophy of life that ostensibly desires a Christian to experience sanctifying growth by requiring him to make his highest priority in life the pursuit of, and the maximizing of, his pleasure in God. TheFaithfulWord.org holds that God in the Bible teaches a philosophy of life that requires a Christian to experience sanctifying growth by pursuing love for God as his highest priority, and as a result of obedient behavior, God will reward the Christian with peace, righteousness, discernment, and other blessings of His own choosing.

Key differences as I would see them from my perspective are defined in the following table:

Key Differences

Christian Hedonism

Traditional Biblical Precepts

What is a Christian’s first and greatest pursuit? To pursue and maximize pleasure for oneself in Christ To pursue love for God, to obey His commands, to pursue love for neighbors
What are the rewards of obediently pursuing that priority? Pleasure and happiness for the hedonist which is glorifying to God God is pleased with us and His glory is reflected by us and by our behavior, and He blesses us with peace, righteousness, discernment, and other rewards
What preconditions exist for salvation? Before faith can save someone they must first find Jesus to be a Treasure Chest of joy and thereby be converted to hedonism (the pursuit of joy). Then a man’s faith in Christ can save him. No preconditions. Salvation is granted on the basis of believing in Christ followed by sorrow over, admission of, and repentance from, sin.
How is God glorified through men? Primarily by our satisfaction in God. Primarily by the degree to which our behavior satisfies God and His Word.
What is the primary goal of worship? Christian Hedonism makes the joy of worship its goal. To edify one another through songs, hymns, and teaching; to praise God; and to meet the needs of one another through acts of service which is our reasonable service of worship (1 Corinthians 14, Romans 12).
What is love? “Love is the overflow and expansion of joy in God, which gladly meets the needs of others. … Love is the overflow and expansion of joy in God! It is not duty for duty’s sake, or right for right’s sake.”

We love Him because He first loved us and gave His life for us. Love is also being obedient to all Christ’s commands. To love God is the greatest commandment and our greatest pursuit.

I want to be happy; how can I be happy if not through converting to Christian Hedonism?

Question 18.

I want to be happy; how can I be happy if not through converting to Christian Hedonism?

Answer 18.

1. When Jesus saw the crowds, He went up on the mountain; and after He sat down, His disciples came to Him.
2. He opened His mouth and began to teach them, saying,
3. "Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4. "Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted.
5. "Blessed are the gentle, for they shall inherit the earth.
6. "Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied.
7. "Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy.
8. "Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.
9. "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.
10. "Blessed are those who have been persecuted for the sake of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11. "Blessed are you when people insult you and persecute you, and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me.
12. "Rejoice and be glad, for your reward in heaven is great; for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

Matthew 5:1-12

"Blessed" is hard to translate into common English. It means "fortunate, well-off, and happy". It has the connotation that something special and good has been divinely delivered to the one who is blessed.

And how is it that one becomes "blessed"? Matthew 5 tells us that it is our good deeds and our righteous behavior which result in this divine blessing. Those who are humble in spirit and are not proud will become blessed, those who mourn over their sin and repent will be blessed, those who value the pursuit of righteousness even over food and water will become blessed, as will be the pure, the merciful, and the evangelists who strive to bring men to peace with God.

How does one become blessed, fortunate, well-off spiritually? By their righteous behavior. Those who hunger and thirst for holiness will become blessed. Righteousness and holiness may be considered as "living in full compliance to all the teachings of the Lord."

Happiness is only possible when we are obedient to God. Being blessed only occurs when we discard our selfishness, our pride, our living-for-self, our sins.

And this is love, that we walk according to His commandments. (2 John 1:6a)

But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be added to you. (Matthew 6:33)

True happiness is not found by pursuing happiness, but by putting our love for God first, seeking to make God King inside our own lives and on this Earth, seeking to put righteousness and holiness as our first priorities.

Happiness is not a pursuit, it is a result, it is an outcome of obedience, it is a product of cultivating the fruit of the Holy Spirit in our lives.

Happiness can be instantly destroyed and lost in a heartbeat in the moment we sin. Happiness is overshadowed by guilt, deep sorrow, and even fear the second we commit an act of disobedience. It is in that moment we come to realize how obvious it is that happiness is not the goal nor the pursuit, it is the state of blessing that accompanies a lifestyle of pursuing love for God by putting holiness first in our lives; demonstrating our priority of love for God by earnestly seeking to obey and fear Him, to please Him in all that we do. Seek first His Kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things, like happiness, will be added to you.

One who seeks to live for happiness and to maximize his pleasure may find he has attained neither. One who seeks to lose his life by denying his pursuit of pleasure and living for Christ may find that he has been given new life and may even be granted some portion of Christ’s blessing, the portion of blessing or happiness which Christ alone determines is appropriately sized for us.

Then Jesus said to His disciples, "If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross and follow Me. For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it; but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it. (Matthew 16:24,25)

And when we are inflicted with persecution for the Lord’s sake, not in the pursuit of maximizing pleasure for ourselves, but for the Lord’s sake, He tells us we can "rejoice (Gk chairo) and be glad (Gk agalliao)" because our reward in heaven is great. Our rejoicing is to God and our gladness is the natural outworking of our gratitude that He has privileged us to share in both the travails and the eternal life which the prophets themselves inherit. Why? Because we deny ourselves and we do all things for Christ’s "sake".

Rejoice and be glad, for your reward in heaven is great; for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you. (Matthew 5:12)

Happiness is a blessing of obedience. Rejoicing and gladness is the expression of gratitude we give to God for the promise of our eternal salvation when we deny ourselves and live for His sake. When we live for His sake, He is glorified.

Christian Hedonism reverses these priorities by encouraging men to live for the sake of obtaining maximum pleasure and to pursue their happiness first so that God can be glorified by men attaining pleasure in Him and from Him. While this may seem a small change in thinking, and is extraordinarily enticing in its implications, it is exactly opposite to the priorities established by God Himself in Matthew 5:12 and Matthew 22:36-28.

Do you wish to be truly happy and blessed? Make it your most important goal to love and fear God while you pursue righteousness by obediently keeping His commandments and God will apportion to you blessings for which you may rejoice and be glad.

FAQ #17 I feel Christian Hedonism is helping me grow, what’s wrong with that?

Question 17.

I feel Christian Hedonism is helping me grow, what’s wrong with that?

Answer 17.

This question is one that is only answered by the individual Christian. Many read the books on Christian Hedonism and do not see the parts about salvation being dependent on first finding the joy of the Lord, nor do they read in it the parts about worship being focused on getting pleasant feelings instead of being focused on exercising one’s gifts for the benefit of other believers. Instead, all some see in these books is that joy is a required part of praising and serving God. Amen!

For such Christians, who only find that the philosophy teaches us to express joy and gratitude back to God for what He has done for us, perhaps there is little or no harm at all being done.

To verify this, however, here is a self-assessment test. Take it confidentially, keep your results private, and answer honestly.

Since converting to Christian Hedonism:

  • have I increased in my monetary giving to the church?
  • have I found myself being more gracious in my speech to others with whom I disagree?
  • am I more willing then ever before to be verbally abused by another believer and come back for more for their benefit?
  • do I more often seek out the unlovely to show them the love of God?
  • am I slower to anger now than before?
  • when I attend church gatherings am I more anxious than ever to share insights from God’s Word?
  • when I attend church gatherings do I find myself getting more and more bored if something emotional is not happening?
  • do I find myself lying less and even find myself more easily accepting my due punishment when I am caught behaving improperly?
  • have I noticed I am less prone to seeking the adulation of others and more prone to talking up the attributes and accomplishments of others to the point where my own deeds are overlooked?
  • am I more conscious than ever that apparent insults do not even bother me anymore?
  • do I feel an increasing sense of superiority over those other obviously emotionally dead Christians?
  • do I find myself more often than not feigning joy and emotional excess to demonstrate to others that my spirituality is increasing?
  • is my own emotional gratification becoming more important than assisting others through their current trials?
  • do I find myself asking more and more which course of action or which choice is going to make me look better and boost my ego?
  • do I find that I have alienated and shunned more fellow Christians then ever before on the basis that they keep me from feeling happy about myself?

    In each of these situations the Christian who is growing in sanctification will become more patient when wronged, more focused on exalting others rather than seeking to be exalted, quicker to give away physical possessions, more enthusiastic about hearing the Word of God taught than being pumped up emotionally, admitting to sinful errors rather than hiding them, and always slower to anger.

    Someone who is becoming selfishly hedonistic will find an ever increasing intolerance for "stupid" Christians who cannot see what they see, will find they become angrier faster when questioned by others, will perceive every little comment as a personal insult, will be frustrated when they are not treated as the center of attention or the bright star of wisdom within a group, and will have a burning need to be ever more emotionally stimulated to justify serving the Lord in church.

    A stated goal of hedonism is to reduce pride and reduce selfishness, so why could such things happen to hedonists after all? When attaining pleasure becomes a truly important goal in our lives then those experiences that rob us of pleasure become barriers to that goal. And when we feel that attaining pleasure has become our spiritual birthright, any obstacle to maximizing pleasure can be passionately viewed as an obstacle to our developing spirituality. In short, we justify getting angry more quickly, we rationalize our anger, we feel cheated when others get praise we think we deserve, we stoop to lying so as not to feel robbed of good feelings. We even neglect study in the Word unless we somehow think we will receive notice from others.

    This is the nature of selfishness, and hedonism. Certainly the stated goals behind Desiring God and Dangerous Duty were to cause the Christian to grow in sanctification. Sadly, the methodology of seeking pleasure undergirds the entire philosophy and can easily lead one to conclude that their greatest obligation is to grab all the pleasure from life that they can in any manner they can so long as they can couch it in Christian-sounding verbiage and satisfy their own heart that what is selfish in appearance is godly at some higher intangible level.

    However, if all that someone took away from reading Desiring God and Dangerous Duty was the idea that God desires us to praise Him with joy, then it can be argued that no harm has been done. Still, being on constant watch for the warning signs of selfish hedonism would be an act of wisdom.

  • FAQ #16 Do you consider Christian Hedonism to be a cult?

    Question 16.

    Do you consider Christian Hedonism to be a cult?

    Answer 16.
    No. The philosophy of Christian Hedonism does not have all the typical hallmarks of a cult. For example it does not have a central governing body under which churches organize themselves, nor does it have a central authoritative leader who directly profits from the organization. No, it would not be proper to characterize Christian Hedonism as a cult.

    However, since Christian Hedonism does call for all men to “convert” to it, and it carries a definable label, and it was developed and propounded by a single personality around whom its disciples and followers rally, and it actively seeks new followers, and it judges as “dead” those who do not adhere to its belief system, I would characterize it as a Christian schism, or, faction.

    A faction is a group of people that splinter off from a larger group in order to establish their own unique identity, and in so doing, they actively seek recruits. The act of seeking recruits most often results in dissention within the larger group. A typical characteristic of the faction is a deeply rooted belief that they are an elite group, having found a superior way of life. The end result can be a permanent fracture as the faction (factious group) establishes a permanent identity around its charter members or founding father.

    Christian Hedonism is more in line with the model defining factions. For example, they proudly wear the distinguishing label “Christian Hedonist”, indicating a splintering from mainstream or traditional Christians. They unabashedly speak of being “converted” to Christian Hedonism. Many of these converts will tell you the best way to be converted is to read the text Desiring God–Meditations of a Christian Hedonist, the defining charter of the group. Finding problems with this text is often treated as a personal attack, or, an attack against the author of the book. Many times I have personally been told that “traditional churches are dead” but Christian Hedonists are alive and vital; in my opinion this is a decidedly judgmental attitude of superiority over non-hedonists.

    While Christian Hedonism may not be a cult, it must answer the question, “Is Christian Hedonism a schism with the Christian church universal?”